"nermal" (nermal)
02/25/2015 at 14:22 • Filed to: concept cars, shower thoughts, product planning, blatantly stolen images via the googles
1
26|
"nermal" (nermal)
02/25/2015 at 14:22 • Filed to: concept cars, shower thoughts, product planning, blatantly stolen images via the googles | 1
| 26 |
They have all of the parts floating around to do it. Go after a the trunk enthusiasts and rear-wiper averse, and take their $35k.
Burrito de EJ25
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:33 |
|
I'm curious if it would sell better than the Golf in the US considering our country's hatred of 5 door vehicles that aren't SUVs/CUVs.
SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:35 |
|
I want this. I want this quite badly. A VW S4? Fuck yes.
GTI Sprinks
> SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
02/25/2015 at 14:39 |
|
Exactly why VW won't do it. Cannibalize sales from Audi and the R-line in general.
Ram_Riot_6
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:45 |
|
It is probably similar to the reason ford does not make a ST sedan. Also, hot hatches rolls off the tongue much better than hot sedans.
bwp240
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:45 |
|
GLI?
http://www.vw.com/models/jetta/t…
Saracen
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:48 |
|
I don't know if the Jetta platform is designed to use AWD.
PS9
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 14:53 |
|
Three reasons.
S4 Cannibalization
Less practical than the Golf R
Aimed at the wrong audience. People who care about performance are already getting the Golf R. People who don't are going to wonder who this car is for, decide it's not them, and move down a trim level.
|
nermal
> bwp240
02/25/2015 at 14:54 |
|
The GLI is basically the sedan version of the regular GTI.
FWD vs AWD, ~210 HP vs ~290 HP.
Übel
> bwp240
02/25/2015 at 14:54 |
|
That's the partner to the GTI, not the R.
|
nermal
> Saracen
02/25/2015 at 14:59 |
|
The new one will ride on the MQB platform, the same as the Golf and Audi A3. This is exactly what it's designed for.
|
nermal
> PS9
02/25/2015 at 15:04 |
|
Do you mean it would steal S3 sales, not S4?
It's the same concept as regular Jetta vs regular A3. One costs more and is nicer, with a "higher end" badge, but they're basically the same thing underneath.
The practical argument applies the same for any other sedan vs any other hatchback. That doesn't mean they wouldn't sell. Same goes for audience. Why not give both options if you can do it for reasonable cost?
|
nermal
> SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
02/25/2015 at 15:04 |
|
Doesn't compare to the S4, but to the S3 instead.
Think manual S3 for $5k less with a VW badge.
|
nermal
> Burrito de EJ25
02/25/2015 at 15:05 |
|
Probably. That was the idea.
|
PS9
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 15:15 |
|
Base for base, you could argue that an A3 has $9k worth of upgrades over a Jetta. But Jetta R vs. S3 and all of a sudden the R has all of the powertrain upgrades and R would get and likely have access to gadgets and upgraded interior options as well. The only thing missing would be the badge prestige, and is that worth $9k by itself? Probably not.
To make this work, you either have to price the Jetta R out of the market, or price it low enough to make a non-trivial portion of S3 buyers reconsider their purchase. This is why we don't have a Jetta R right now.
duurtlang
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 15:27 |
|
The Golf R is built in Germany, right? Even the US market one? That might be a cause why there's no Jetta R. I doubt anyone in Europe wants an R version of what's seen as an old people car and I doubt the US market alone will generate the volume needed for a Jetta R.
|
nermal
> PS9
02/25/2015 at 15:36 |
|
The price difference is less than you think...
2015 Jetta GLI DSG, no options: $28,840
2015 A3 1.8t, no options: $30,795
2015 A3 2.0t Quattro, no options: $34,095
I think there's definitely a different customer for the Jetta vs A3. But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for a higher model in the Jetta range.
|
Burrito de EJ25
> Ram_Riot_6
02/25/2015 at 15:36 |
|
People who buy the Focus and Fiesta sedans are awful. Those two look hideous as sedans. Even if you don't like hatchbacks.
|
nermal
> duurtlang
02/25/2015 at 15:38 |
|
Good point, didn't think of that.
|
Saracen
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 16:05 |
|
Yeah, every VAG product will ride on MQB or MLB. But a photoshop of the current Jetta was used which is why I pointed that out.
|
duurtlang
> Saracen
02/25/2015 at 16:14 |
|
Isn't the current Jetta on the same platform as the old (mk6) Golf R? Until not too long ago a Jetta was nothing more than a bodystyle variation of the Golf, just like a Focus sedan.
|
nermal
> duurtlang
02/25/2015 at 16:28 |
|
Upon further review, you are correct here. The 2015 Jetta was updated, but it's still on the MK6 Golf platform, not the new MK7 Golf / MQB one.
|
nermal
> Saracen
02/25/2015 at 16:29 |
|
Sorry, that's the first decent photochop I found.
|
PS9
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 16:46 |
|
'DSG, No options'? Nice try. The Jetta does not come standard with a dual clutch, and the GLI is a trim level above base.
Base for base, there is a $12k gap between the two cars, and it's arguable that you get $12k worth of upgrades over the Jetta base for base. You could of course just pick the highest trim Jetta and load up on options, but then you're only a few grand from owning a true luxury car that has most of that stuff in it anyway. The A3 Cannabalizing the GLIs works to VAGs favor because margins on a luxury car are better than that of a normal one, and you can get a non-trivial amount of people who will pay even more than the ~$30k or so they set out to if it means they can have an Audi.
But in Jetta R world, it's the other way around. It's an S3 with a VW badge. If you charge less-than-S3 money for it, a non-trivial amount of people will forgo 'brand prestige' and get the Jetta R instead. This is bad because the S was the higher-margin car, and cannibalizing it cuts into an already limited volume of buyers relative to a Jetta. This is why a Jetta R does not exist.
|
nermal
> PS9
02/25/2015 at 18:05 |
|
The reason I picked the GLI w/ DSG was to show that they have other comparable cars that aren't far apart in price. I doubt anybody will cross shop an A3 with a $17k base model Jetta. A GLI DSG vs a base A3? Yes, that's much more likely.
My point was that there are already other close overlaps within the two ranges. If there were not a large enough market to justify making both, both would not exist.
To flip your point, the Jetta R —-> S3 path is the exact same one as the GLI —-> A3 path. Some would see the value in the more expensive model, some would not. There may be cross shopping, but that's ok, and preferable to cross shopping with a non-VW/Audi product. The extra option would net more sales in my opinion, due to making it more accessible. It may even have a halo effect, in the same way that the Golf R helps to sell more GTIs.
Think2Win
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 19:55 |
|
This is a twist on the topic, but why do you guys think that the Miata has to be modified to get the power it deserves? The Miata is widely acclaimed on Jalop, Opo, etc., as the go-to car for handling. Why do you think Mazda does not offer a 250+ hp version? I would love to hear your thoughts
|
SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
> nermal
02/25/2015 at 21:43 |
|
Very true. I keep forgetting about the S3. Still, I would buy it. I actually like it better than the S3.